with a lot of what is said.
'Armageddon' shows how literal readings of the Bible's end times affect modern times
Just keep in mind the person writing this blog post has said numerous times he is:
A Premillennial-Post Tribulationist,
which places my hermeneutics
smack dab in the middle of Literal vs Allegory.
"The problem is what you see as literal
I see as allegorical
and what you see as allegorical
I see as literal,
especially when applied
to the books of Genesis and Revelation."
Some?
Some of what is said I am so downright opposed to
as to override everything said that I do agree with.
Almost.
BIG SPRINGS
FLASE PHROPHET ETC
Just sayin...
"Bible scholar Bart Ehrman says interpretations of the Book of Revelation have created disastrous problems — from personal psychological damage to consequences for foreign policy and the environment."
(The interpretations did that?
Or the people who put their interpretations into action did that?
I mean come on the interpretations didn't do anything of and by themselves.)
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. A lot of people have been nervously joking in the past couple of years that it seems like the End Times - with the pandemic, record-setting floods, hurricanes, tornadoes and fires, environmental crises, war and fears that democracies are becoming more authoritarian. For those who take the New Testament's Book of Revelation literally, they may actually believe this is the End Times. The End Times have been prophesied dating back to at least the time of Jesus, who preached the end was near."
(News flash, some of us aint been jokin...and you dont have to take the whole thing literal to believe it's the end times, and technically were still not quite there yet.)
"The description of the end in Revelation reads like a horror film, with fantastical, monstrous beasts and giant, surreal insects, as well as plagues, wars, a lake of fire and torture. That's what those who haven't accepted Jesus as the Messiah will face. Believers will rise to heaven to be with God. Revelation is the most controversial book in the New Testament. Many scholars think it shouldn't have been included in the Bible."
(And now with events playing outright in front of your eyes?
They have been proved categorically,
wholeheartedly
and emphatically wrong!
Matthew 24:4
Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.)
My guest, Bart Ehrman, is one of the scholars who thinks Revelation presents a very disturbing and inconsistent vision of God. He explains why in his new book, "Armageddon: What The Bible Really Says About The End." He writes that a literal reading of Revelation has created disastrous problems, including personal and psychological damage and has, quote, "affected our world in ways you might not expect, involving carnage, U.S. foreign policy and the welfare of our planet," unquote."
("Bart Ehrman, is one of the scholars who thinks Revelation presents a very disturbing and inconsistent vision of God"
(Apparently he's not all that much of a scholar if he cant explain God's wrath to you. Yo dude?
Go get you this book:
and look up wrath,
it's all very well explained about how the two are compatible and not inconsistent in the least. (Or go watch the presentation I did on that subject matter.) This guy knows all this, he just not telling you. That tells you right there who he is, what time it is, and what we are getting ready to head into. Why he was ever on NPR is beyond me.
It's the literal reading of it that causes everything? And not the author of history itself? Interesting. This is a bible scholar? I'm not even started yet.)
"As his many readers know, he was an evangelical Christian in college and believed the end was near. He studied at the evangelical Moody Bible Institute. But while attending Princeton Theological Seminary, he stopped believing in the literal truth of the Bible. Eventually, he became an agnostic. But he's continued his work as a Bible scholar. He's the author of many books, including the bestseller "Misquoting Jesus." He's a distinguished professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Bart Ehrman, welcome back to FRESH AIR. It is always a pleasure to talk with you.
("he was an evangelical Christian in college and believed the end was near..."
Did he not know the two witnesses have to show up first?
"he became an agnostic"
File that one away were going to come back yo it at the end.)
"And he (John, the author of the book of Revelation) writes his book about various visions that he has had that he indicates are predictions of what is soon to take place, he says. It's going to happen very soon.
("various visions"
"Be careful what you take literal in a vision."
Been saying that for years.
Some is meant to be, some isn't.
"he says. It's going to happen very soon"
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
Depends on whose "soon" you are talking about.)
"EHRMAN: Well, it does. And I think the thing is that most people understand where action-horror films are going, but most people have real trouble figuring out Revelation. It's really - it's one of these books that people know about but almost nobody reads. And the people who start reading it find it so confusing and so bizarre, they just give up, and they never get to the end, with the exception of evangelical or fundamentalist Christians who use it to kind of mine for - to - you know, for pieces of the puzzle that will explain what's going to happen in the future."
(Church fell asleep was my assertation and now Satan was/is exploiting the ignorance. Most scholars of the book will tell you it's all three, some has happened, some is happening (a good chunk BTW) and some will happen in the future. He seems to focus more on the future than past, present and future all together which puts him at odds with most scholars. There's you another sign. He doesn't understand God's wrath, or he is unwilling to try and explain it to you and he sees people looking at the book of Revelation for whats coming as opposed to what has, is, and will happening. Thats two strikes in my book.)
"EHRMAN: So what happens in this account is that when the fifth angel blows his trumpet, there are these beasts that come up out of the Earth - locusts - that have the authority of scorpions, and they're told that they can torture people for five months but not kill them. And people will beg to die, but they're not allowed to die. And so they have to suffer just incredible torture for five months without being killed. And then John goes on to describe them."
"(Reading) In appearance, the locusts were like horses equipped for battle. On their heads were what looked like crowns of gold. Their faces were like human faces, their hair like women's hair and their teeth like lions' teeth. They had scales like iron breastplates, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. They have tails like scorpions, with stingers. And in their tails is their power to harm people for five months."
GROSS: That is surreal and brutal. And I'm wondering, do you think if this was written today that somebody would be sending John to a psychotherapist for a diagnosis and medication? And I don't mean to be flip about it, but this is the kind of paranoid, detailed story that some people come up with who are really seriously troubled. And my apologies to people who, you know, believe, in the rapture and the Second Coming. I don't mean to take away from their belief. But I'm just saying, today if somebody wrote that and took it seriously, they might be sent for psychiatric help."
"EHRMAN: Yeah. I think that's probably right. Or at least the, you know, the police would be - keep their eye on them for, you know, what kind of guns they're stockpiling. But the - I think the reality is that, you know, when we're - we're in such a different culture now that It's hard for us to get our mind around people who are thinking like this."
(Like I was saying:
Be careful what you take in a vision literally.
Revelation 9:7-10
New American Bible (Revised Edition)
"The appearance of the locusts was like that of horses ready for battle. On their heads they wore what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, and they had hair like women’s hair. Their teeth were like lions’ teeth, and they had chests like iron breastplates. The sound of their wings was like the sound of many horse-drawn chariots racing into battle. They had tails like scorpions, with stingers; with their tails they had power to harm people for five months.
Footnotes
9:7–10 Eight characteristics are listed to show the eschatological and diabolical nature of these locusts.
8 signifies a new beginning.
The 8th day of the week is the first day of the next week.
David was the 8th son signifying a new beginning.
There were 8 people on the ark signifying a new beginning.
Same here.
AND I WANT THIS GUY TO COME EXPLAIN TO ME ABOUT UAP'S AND ALL WHAT THAT ENTAILS. LOVE TO HEAR HIS TAKE ON IT. Y'ALL KNOW I GOT A CHAIR AT MY TABLE FOR ANYBODY, ANYTIME.
"Apocalypse" has come to be used popularly as a synonym for catastrophe, but the Greek word apokálypsis, from which it is derived, means a revelation. The original meaning of the word wasn't catastrophe, the end etc. It meant there were hidden meanings in what was being written. Thats something else this "Bible Scholar didn't mention. Thats strike three for me y'all.)
"But John is not unusual in the ancient world. He would not have been thought of being anything like psychotic in antiquity because there were lots of other books like this being written that are using high-level symbolism and very violent imagery to describe what's going to happen in the future. And so he's actually participating in a fairly broad movement. And that's one of the reasons that most people don't understand the Book of Revelation, is because we don't have anything quite like this anymore. Apart from something like science fiction novels, there just isn't something like this.
( So?
The author of the book of revelation?
"is not unusual in the ancient world...
"there were lots of other books like this being written"
"he's actually participating in a fairly broad movement"
Yet:
"we don't have anything quite like this anymore"
So out of that "broad movement?
This is the one that survived?
1 Peter 1:24-25
For,
“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.
Guy seems to be making my points for me.)
"And in antiquity, it was a common genre among Jews and Christians. And so I'd be hesitant to diagnose him today, but if he were writing this today, I'd be very bothered, yes (laughter). And, you know, you could argue that it was bothersome back then, too, because a lot of this imagery is really very, very not just violent, but sometimes gratuitously violent and attributing this kind of horrible violence to God and to Christ. And I think a lot of people didn't like that in the ancient world, either."
(Let me give you a big clue. God dont care what you or anybody thinks about his plans and he dont care if they liked them then or us now. The Jewish scholars back in the day thought it had to be two different messiahs they were so very different. One to save humanity and one to clean up the mess so to speak. They couldn't wrap their heads around it, that it was the same deity. Thats something else this "bible scholar" conveniently left out. I wonder why he is doing all of that? Couldn't be pushing an agenda or trying to sell his book or anything could he? Thats strike four BTW. I just wrote on here the other day:
"HE'S NOT A LAMB THIS TIME AROUND!"
)
GROSS: So the people who are saved from all these horrors on earth are the ones who are believers and have accepted Jesus as the Messiah, right?
(Your logical fallacy is:
And I like terry Gross, I really do, always have.
Again,
I am:
A Premillennial-Post Tribulationist,
which places my hermeneutics
smack dab in the middle of Literal vs Allegory.
One of the most important "presentations" I did early on was taking on the false doctrine of the pretribulation rapture, because it is satanic in nature and to late in coming to the game and only prevalent in the western Church. If you honestly believe you are going to be "whisked away" to someplace they cant tell you because it doesn't say and then come back when all the trouble is over?
You just might just reject your God when the trouble comes, and that's what we as Christians need to be prepared for. (1:11 rn BTW :-). I would encourage Mr. Ehrman and others to watch that presentation.
Just because most in the evangelical community believe in a pre-tribulation rapture? Doesn't mean we all do. Some of us are actively doing all what we can to get people prepared for what they are going to have to endure. I can go with one verse proves my point:
Matthew 24:22
And if those days had not been shortened,
no one would be saved;
but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened.
YOU WILL HAVE TO ENDURE!
YOU WILL HAVE TO GIVE IT ALL UP!
EVERYTHING!
NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK!
EVER!
THATS THE LEVEL OF COMMITMENT EXPECTED!
PERIOD!)
"Two things that I'll say that are surprising about the book. One is that this view that there's going to be a rapture is not in the Book of Revelation. This is something that - it's a modern idea of the rapture."
(And it is a false teaching. Thx for making my point again for me. When something comes into the church in the last few 100 years? You might wanna sit back and examine if you really wanna go with that belief or not. The newer it is? The less likely it is of God. And why exactly would Satan not try and convince you you're not going to have to go through all that yucky stuff?
Exactly.
Seriously, the guy needs to watch my presentation on the pretribulation rapture deconstruction.
Both of them actually.)
"We can actually date it. It was originated in the 1830s, the idea that Jesus will come back, take his followers out, and then it's just the nonbelievers who are going to get all this.'
(It's satanic and I have already covered Margaret MacDonald Visions which were edited that led to this belief in the church. Why then, 1830's? Satan knows what time it's getting ready to be, nobody but God knows, but Satan can see the warning signs I assure you.
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”)
"GROSS: This emphasis on, you know, pearly gates and a city of gold and Christ himself as bejeweled in the image that John describes of him - it seems very counter to the anti-materialistic Jesus of the New Testament. How do you reconcile that?"
"EHRMAN: Well, I don't (laughter).
I don't think you can reconcile it."
(YO BIBLE SCHLAR DUDE!
Here is how you reconcile it:
Ezekiel 28:14
New American Bible (Revised Edition)
With a cherub I placed you;
I put you on the holy mountain of God,[a]
where you walked among fiery stones.
Footnotes
28:14 The holy mountain of God: the residence of gods in Israelite and non-Israelite myth; cf. Is 14:13. Fiery stones: associated with the divine presence; cf. Ez 1:13; Ps 18:13.
Thats five strikes.
But the guy isn't pushing an agenda?
Come on now.)
"A lot of people try to. And people always have. I mean, the reality is that in the Gospels, as you say, when Jesus talks about wealth, he's against it. He thinks that people should not live for material things. And so he tells people - a rich man comes up to him and says, you know, what must I do, you know, for eternal life? And Jesus says, if you want to have treasure in heaven, sell everything you have and give to the poor. That's - and that's what Jesus did. He left everything to - for his mission. His disciples left their homes and their families and their jobs. And Jesus praises them for it. Throughout the Gospels, Jesus embraces a gospel of spirituality that is anti-materialistic."
"And it's not the way people have interpreted. People today interpret it as saying that Jesus thinks that if you give some away now, you'll have even more material wealth in heaven, you know that treasures in heaven means you're going to have palaces and things. And that's not what he's talking about. The point is the material things are not what you're supposed to live with or live for. And you won't have those in heaven. You'll have a spiritual existence in heaven. So that's Jesus's teaching. But when - that you should give up material things and that wealth is not to be sought after.
(I told you I agree with a lot of it.
The fact that:
"People today interpret it as saying that Jesus thinks that if you give some away now, you'll have even more material wealth in heaven, you know that treasures in heaven means you're going to have palaces and things."
Tells you again, exactly where we are.
Matthew 24:4
Jesus said to them in reply, “See that no one deceives you."
"The Book of Revelation has just the opposite view in some ways. The Book of Revelation does have a problem with wealth. It has a problem because the enemy of God in Revelation, the city and empire of Rome, is fantastically wealthy. It has exploited all the provinces of the empire. It has accumulated huge amounts of wealth.
(That remind you of any country right now?
Or is this your preferred method of exitance?
Rome is merely the blueprint for what follows.)
And so the problem in Revelation with wealth is not that wealth itself is bad. The problem in Revelation is that the wrong people have it. The Romans have it, and, you know, we should have it. We're the Christians. And so what ends up happening is God takes the wealth from Rome, destroys the Roman world, destroys - takes away all their wealth. And the Christians then have a city of gold and, you know, gates of pearl and eternal life living in fantastic wealth. So I don't think that's the gospel of Jesus at all. I think it's contrary to the gospel of Jesus."
(It most certainly is, I agree. Fiery stones (precious gems) indicate the presence of God and it's not about material wealth at all. It's about the eternal dimensions that will be there for the believer that we can not currently experience.
So there, that's how you reconcile it.
Mr. Bible scholar says he didn't think you could.
Thats six strikes now by my count.)
"Let's get back to my interview with Bart Ehrman, author of the new book "Armageddon: What The Bible Really Says About The End." He's a distinguished professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill."
(If that is all it takes to be considered,
"distinguished"?
I'll just leave it at that...)
"You used to be an evangelical during your teens and college years. Did you take the Book of Revelation literally?"
(Again, Be careful taking visions literally.)
"EHRMAN:...I try to explain in my book that throughout most of Christian history, to the surprise of readers today - throughout most of Christian history, people did not read Revelation as a prediction of what's going to happen in our future. Since the fourth, fifth centuries, almost everybody read it as an indication of what was already going on now in symbolic language."
(It's past present and future all at the same time, just like God experiences time.
Again, did he point that out to you?)
"I mean, the one everybody does know about is James Watt, who was appointed by Reagan to be the secretary of the interior, who famously, during one of his confirmation hearings, was asked whether he believed that we needed to preserve our natural resources for future generations. You know, he's responsible for preserving our national resources as the secretary of interior. And he replied that, yes, it is important for us to preserve our resources for future generations. But then he said, but I'm not sure how many future generations there are before Jesus comes back. And, oh, man, did that cause some consternation."
"That's not your typical Washington speak, you know, because if you think - even if you don't think he's coming back on Thursday, you know, if you think he's coming back in about 40 years, why preserve your resources? You know, I mean, why skimp? Why not just go for it? Because in 40 years it's not going to matter anymore. And as it turns out, in 2010, there is a survey of Christians in America, and 47% thought that Jesus either certainly or was likely to come back in 40 years. I mean, almost half of the Christians in America. And so if you've got Christians in America who say - you know, half of them don't think, you know, we're going to be around after 40 years, that certainly changes your attitude toward environmental concerns and climate change. And, you know, who cares? It doesn't matter.'
(Thats the "it's a defeatist proposition argument" against the book. Pretty common actually. We are already past the tipping point with regard to climate change. The only resource that has to go away for things to become calamitous is water.
Think about what the rivers in China, Europe and America looked like last summer. The pictures are on here somewhere along with the prophecy somewhere
The author of history made those rivers dry up just like he said he would, not peoples behavior because they thought God's promises are true.
The book of Revelation is a book of
Hope
of Wisdom
and of Knowledge.
Brother Joe even pointed all of that out in his bible study on the book for goodness sakes, but this "distinguished" professor cant seem to tell you that?
Why?
So that when you see all of these things coming to fruition?
You know God's promises are true.
Did Mr. Bible expert point that out to you?
Or the hippie biker cannabis enthusiast?
And why do you think that is exactly?
Hum?)
"GROSS: Especially if you believe that you're one of the people who are going to be raptured.
EHRMAN: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, you're going to be taken out of the world."
(It's a false teaching that many have fallen for and I'm here trying to warn everybody I can about it. I have said I'll go and give my thing about the rapture being post-tribulation and others are more than welcome to present their views of it being pre- or mid-trib. We can three viewpoints presented and people can decide for themselves. To date? No takers on that offer, none, I wonder why?)
"His book interprets the Book of Revelation from a historical perspective and writes about what he finds very disturbing about the image of God in the book and how inconsistent it is with the Gospel's stories about Jesus."
(Yo?
Bible scholar dude?
Surly UNC at Chapel Hill has a copy somewhere.
Go to the part about God's wrath.
Just because we dont experience that attribute of God very often?
Dont mean it aint a thing yo...)
"But there's one more thing that has to happen. According - in a kind of obscure reference in the New Testament - it's in Second Thessalonians, Chapter 2 - the author, claims to be Paul, says that Jesus cannot return right away. But there's some things that have to happen first before He returns. The main thing that has to happen is that there's a figure named the lawless one. He's not called the Antichrist, but people identify him as the Antichrist. The lawless one must go into the temple. And he will declare himself God.
(That is your trip wire, it happens half way into the seven year tribulation period and starts, "The Great Tribulation.)
And after that happens, then Jesus can return. The problem is that, of course, there is no temple. There hasn't been a temple since the year 70 of the common era. And on the Temple Mount today in Jerusalem, the site of the temple, that's where the Dome of the Rock is.
(2nd Thessalonians Two?
The Man of Lawlessness is an obscure reference?
Thats strike seven dude.)
"GROSS: Which is a Muslim mosque.
EHRMAN: There are Islamic sacred sites on the Temple Mount. And so for Israel to take over the Temple Mount means they've got to wipe out these Islamic holy sites. And that means that, you know, Israel has become very strong. Evangelicals think that God promised all of the land of Israel to Israel, and so the Palestinian territories need to be taken over. Jerusalem has to be controlled by Israel completely. The Temple Mount has to be taken over. They have to destroy the Dome of the Rock and build the Jewish temple there so the Antichrist can go into it and Jesus can come back. And so all of this is just - this is historically why American evangelicals for the entire 20th century, but especially starting in the 1970s in a big way with the Moral Majority - the Christian Moral Majority with Jerry Falwell and company - that's why they've always been supportive of Israel."
(YO!
DUDE!
HELLO!
12 Apr 2023
"Despite international law prohibiting the annexation and continued Israeli occupation of East Jerusalem, Israel has claimed sovereignty over the entirety of Jerusalem, including the Old City and the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound, but the claims are considered unlawful and have not been recognised by the majority of the world’s countries."
"Over the past three decades, Israel has enforced greater control over the site, including by controlling who enters and exits, restricting Palestinian access, conducting violent raids inside, and increasingly facilitating the entry of Jewish hardline groups who, since 1967, have publicly stated their aim to take over the compound, destroy the Dome of the Rock, and build a third temple there."
"Israel’s far-right government, which came into power in December 2022, includes top officials such as Itamar Ben-Gvir, a former follower of Meir Kahane, the founder of a group which has been proscribed as a “terrorist” organisation in Israel and the United States."
'Ben-Gvir has said that the Al-Aqsa Mosque is there “temporarily” and that the “temple is still being quickly built in our days"
"On Monday and Tuesday morning, more than 2,000 Jews in 40 different groups entered the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound under the protection of Israeli forces."
(Yo bible scholar?
That was this week yo!)
"On Monday, in a post about their visit to the site, the group said the purpose of the trip was to “demand the government of Israel open the Temple Mount to full Jewish worship” and “establish the third temple”."
"The head of Khozrim La-Har, Rafael Morris, told Al Jazeera: “One of the Zionist dreams is to build the temple and there is no reason that we shouldn’t do it today,” adding that he believes the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound is “100 percent Israeli land”.
"The Temple Institute organisation has also been central to the effort to mainstream Jewish visits and promote the building of the third temple."
"The organisation said its “long-term aims are to build the third Jewish temple on the Temple Mount, on the site currently occupied by the Dome of the Rock, and to reinstate sacrificial worship”.
(Thats huge!
Daniel 9:27
King James Version
And he (The antichrist) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
(They gotta get started (sacrifice and the oblation) before they can be stopped right?)
"According to Israeli media reports, Israeli authorities enable, assist and even fund some of the Temple Mount groups."
"Israeli forces, directed by the Ministry of Defence, have also gradually allowed greater access to these groups and provided protection for them during the visits."
"Consecutive Israeli governments have included senior officials who were themselves part of the Temple Mount movement."
So?
The "distinguished" professor doesn't think a third temple can happen anytime soon?
Interesting...
Does he live in a garage with no internet or something I guess?)
(They played a tape of John Hagee. I like him even though I disagree with him about the pretribulation rapture. look how close this is matching up rn.)
"JOHN HAGEE: In two minutes, let me tell you where we're going from here. This prophetic portrait paints the following sequence of event for the future. America and Europe become weakened and cannot respond to Israel in the time that Russia and the Arab invasion begins against Israel. This is God's plan. Why? Because he wants the Jewish people in Israel and around the world to know that He, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, saved them, not America. Secondly, Russia, with Arab allies, will plot and plan Israel's destruction. That's happening right now. It has been happening for 10 years. Iran's nuclear weapons have been produced with Russian scientists. The Islamic Arabs are using the road map to peace to get all of the land of Israel they can get."
"so few people actually read the Book of Revelation"
(And the church doesnt teach it either, so MUCHO KUDOS to Bro Joseph Kim doing his bible study on it when he was preaching here.
"We got the playbook!
We know whats going to happen!"
He used to say :-)
So why are you scared?)
"EHRMAN: It's a burning world we're in. And so people naturally think about end-of-the-world things and it turns their head to Revelation."
(Why not a different Holy Book?
And it's
eschatological
(relating to death,
judgment,
and the final destiny of the soul
and of humankind)
explanations then?
Hum?
This one doesn't belong in the cannon but there's not another one people go running to?
Interesting, like I said the guy is making my points for me. So ty sir.)
"And the scenarios today are very different from what John had in mind."
(I disagree, first of all John wasn't in his mind, God was in it and Rome was merely the blueprint for all the kingdoms that would come after it, until the end.)
"EHRMAN: It's hugely symbolic."
(The book of revelation that is.
Yeah...agreed, no kidding.)
"GROSS: So a question you ask at the end of your book is, which Jesus do you model yourself on, the Jesus who was anti-materialistic, who said, turn the other cheek, or the Jesus who participates in this incredible wrath and retribution, vengeance, violence, bloodshed, plagues, catastrophes, lakes of fire? That's a really interesting question to ponder because - I mean, can you reconcile believing in both at the same time? And is that a question you asked yourself when you were still a believer?"
(The Jewish scholars back in the day talked about the same thing. Some of them thought it has to be two different messiahs because they were so different. They are the same, just different attributes being exhibited.)
"EHRMAN: When I was a believer, I thought that God was both loving and just and that we could experience his love if we would turn to him, but if we didn't, then, necessarily, he had to implement his justice, so that the Book of Revelation was his justice, and the Gospels were his love. And, you know, I really don't see it that way anymore. I think that the Book of Revelation is not really about God's justice. Justice is not the word that gets used in Revelation. The word is wrath."
(Dude..plz...Killing me...Somebody get him a copy please:
Then word Wrath in that book.
Look it up.
BTW?
God's wrath is the mechanism by which he dispenses his righteous Justice/Judgement and it is always justified and comes only after a prolonged bout of open hostility/provoking to him, often involving Idolatry. It's to teach a lesson like a father disciplining his children, it's done out of love for his creation always.
Everything in the book of revelation?
All the scroll judgments?
The trumpet judgements?
The bowl judgements?
The woes?
Everything is design to get you to turn to him such that you wont have to suffer the eternal consequences of you actions.
It's Gods fault people dont just reject him but are openly hostile to even the idea of him?
Interesting.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.)
"EHRMAN: Well, there's a lot of violence being sponsored by conservative Christians who are in support of, well, taking over the government, for example, who are in support of all sorts of opposition to social policies that might help people - so opposition to immigration, wanting to cut the budgets so that we don't help out the poor. We cut down on helping those who are desperately in need. But let's build up the defense budget, and let's invade some more."
"And so I'll just say, you know, there are some wars that I think are completely justified. I think America has been in wars that are not justified.
(Since Vietnam basically)
And most of these unjustified wars, in my experience, have been supported by people who call themselves Christian who want to take over the world in one way or another. So I think the violent Jesus of Revelation resonates with people more than the innocent Lamb of the Gospels."
(Two points:
1) Maybe they just call themselves Christians but really aren't? True Christians understand exactly how things are to proceed and are not worried in the least about: "want to take over the world in one way or another" They understand and have understood all along that merging politics and faith is always a bad idea. Constantine, I'll just leave it there.)
or
2) They fell for the false teachers.
It shows you exactly where we are and why you should take it all so very seriously...
just not all so very literally...
(Locust description etc)
Seriously people.
Use the brain God gave ya.
The
Two witnesses on your doorsteps BTW.)
Alright
My questions for Mr. Bible Scholar agnostic are as follows:
The universe had a beginning.
This is A scientific fact.
Which one of the six metaphysical explanations does he believe in and why?
DEISM
THEISM
PANTHEISM
PANSPERMIA
Where did the four fundamental forces get the information they needed, in order to "peel off" from each other in exactly the correct order?
And why does that just happen to match up with the cycle of life exactly?
Gravity = Birth
Strong nuclear = Growth.
Electromagnetism = Peak.
Weak = death and decay.
(Information is always a sign of cognizant/rational/sentient intelligence remember. A monkey can throw letters at a billboard all day, it still wont convey a message it was trying to say.)
While were at it?
We will just go ahead and ask where did the information In DNA and come?
And in the RNA too? The RNA "reads" so to speak the instructions in the DNA and brings it into existence.
Information doesn't "evolve".
Somebody is trying to send you a message.
So where did that information come from?
And how exactly is any of this possible?
Except through the power of the holy Spirit workin through somebody?
Where's the other holy book that gets time space energy and matter and their interconnectedness right in the first ten words?
I mean it just happens to be the same one Mr. "Distinguished" Bible Scholar says everybody runs to when the shit starts hitting the fan.
I wonder why that is exactly?
Somebody PLEASE come explain it all to me.
THE PEOPLE STUDING IT?
DONT GET TO TELL THE PEOPLE LIVING IT WHATS WAT
THAT MUCH I CAN ASSURE YOU.
Isaiah 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.
Matthew 10:19
But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say
There's not a person on this earth gonna be able to counter what I got, cause it's not coming from me.
So yeah...
What I know?
Trumps what you think.
No matter who you are.
And somebody plz...
get that man this book:
He is pushing an agenda for a reason.
Dont fall for it.
Matthew 24:4
Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
Cause we are here,
and there is only one book explains what is going on...
Regardless if some dont think it should have ever been included in the cannon.
I'd say
"I rest my case"
However:
I love you baby.
TTYS honey.
)
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